CDH, a Melbourne street artist, recently sat down for a chat on behalf of Invurt with Harold Mitchell, philanthropist, business man, Melbournian of the year, and the man behind the highly anticipated and acclaimed Melbourne Underground project …

Harold Mitchell is one of Australia’s most successful businessmen. He is a dedicated philanthropist, serves on many arts and cultural boards and was named Melbournian of the year in 2011. In preparation for the interview, I read his autobiography ‘Living Large’ from which you quickly get the sense that he’s a quick witted and relaxed guy, but also a shrewd and resilient businessman.

When I arrived, he was reading in the waiting room. He was wearing matching red tracksuit pants and jacket, which was reminiscent of Ali G. Friendly and jovial, he immediately started cracking jokes and was just easy and disarming. He’s quite the opposite of the Donald Trump persona you might expect; he’s warm, open minded and considerate.

He recently dedicated his underground car park in South Melbourne to a graffiti art project: the Melbourne Underground Project. 90 artists have been invited to paint the three levels. International artists Ces and Nash were flown out for it. It’s similar to the five level car park project at the base of the Condor Tower in Perth, except the focus here is more on graffiti writing rather than street art.

When I ask if it will be repainted, in keeping with graffiti art’s urban renewal ethos he tells me “We won’t repaint it. You wouldn’t repaint the Sistine Chapel”. It’s a distinctly different approach from many other similar projects around the world. The intention is for the car park to serve as a permanent street art gallery in Melbourne. However after the opening weekend, once the novelty has passed, what will really happen? It seems more likely the large metal roller doors at the entrance to the car park will close and for the next thirty years the only people that will venture down there will be drivers going to park their cars – but this is precisely what is genius about the idea! The car park will serve as a time capsule for urban art from Melbourne, 2012. When people rediscover it in thirty years, it’s likely the majority of the urban art of 2012, on the street, will have been lost; tagged into oblivion, repainted by new artists or buffed by councils. It’s exciting to know that this cultural artefact will be preserved for future generations to be able to see original street art from our time, not just photographic catalogues on the internet. We will withhold a review of the space until it’s fully complete, but the concept at least is really inspired.

In the waiting area of his plush South Melbourne office, Harold has a copy of Banksy’s ‘Wall and Piece’ mixed amongst a variety of other magazines and books.

Oh, I have this book too. What do you think of it?

Harold: Oh it’s a good book. In fact I think we might make a book out of the Project Underground as well.

Can you tell us a bit about the project?

Harold: Yeah, well it’s a great story. One of clients (we have 2,000 clients in Australia; we’re Australia’s biggest advertising company) said to me at one time that the new building was fantastic, the staff were very pleased with it, aesthetically it looked good but he mentioned there weren’t enough car spaces for clients. So I walked down there. I owned the building with my family but I’d never been into the car park. Why would I? I walked in there and I thought he was right, and by the way this is really boring.

[Both laughing]

We run a whole host of things in advertising and creativity. I went to one of our companies who have a lot of street art on one of their own walls and said ‘Can you go and do something about our car park?’. They were really busy because they’re very successful.

Who is that?

Harold: Visual Jazz. They said ‘we’re really busy’ and I said ‘that’s great’. We want to be busy for our clients but we better do it some other way. I still thought it was a great idea to do it. I knew I wanted an Australian base to do it. I knew at the back of my mind, we’d been involved with Musée du quai Branly, which was a new museum that Chirac had put together in Paris. We had eight indigenous Australian artists who had contributed something to become part of the building. It’s a five or six storey building. It’s part of a very big museum. It’s within a kilometre of the Eiffel Tower. Our family had paid for the eight Australian artists to be part of that building. They are giant representations of their work. They didn’t actually paint them, but their designs were taken, copied and then became part of the building. And so that project was partly what we had in our mind, as something that will be permanent. I went there when Chirac came in it. To Stéphane Martin, their director, I said ‘This is great. It’ll be here for 20, 30 years.’ Stefan replied ‘Harold it will be here for 400 years.’ The point is the permanence of it.

So, I had that in the back of my mind. I said to one of our people, Anthony Charles (he’s very good at organizing things) we should organise the Project Underground to get Australian street artists to do it. I thought in the beginning there might be ten who would come and do something. In the end it took off, and we have people from all over Australia, 3 from Europe and 2 from New York. When you look at it, you’ll say ‘this is spectacular’. It’s permanent. It is art directed to some extent, so they fit together. It’s generally themed, but you’ll see that and work it out for yourself. We then quietly organized it over a period of about six months. We planned for three weekends in the month of January for the cars to be cleared out. It would follow from there that they would complete it. They all got so excited, meeting each other and getting on with the work that it was over halfway completed by the end of the first weekend. We had some publicity as a result of it, which we had expected, but it just took off in the beginning. We had to close all the doors because we had buses of people coming up wanting to have a look at it.

I came early to have a look at it, but it was all closed.

Harold: Well this is three floors. When you see it you’ll be blown away. And it’ll be permanent. Forever. Fabulous. And I didn’t tell them what to do or what not to do. Probably wouldn’t have got the best people to do that. Also they’ve respected it. It’s graffiti free pretty much around South Melbourne. These people respect that. They have got interesting backgrounds. One guy is an illustrator for Walt Disney and Marvel comics. Good people. Very exciting. It’s an expression of modern times, from people who respect modern times. It’s our way of being able to contain it, without it being up and down alley ways, which we’re not entirely opposed to if it’s approved and ok. This is a good way to do it.

You have an impressive record of supporting the arts in Melbourne. You’re a very highly regarded member of the community and served (among other things) as Chairman of the NGA, President of the Melbourne International Arts Festival, President of the Museum Board of Victoria, and as a board member of the Opera Australia Council.

Harold: There’s a lot of other stuff too.

[Laughing] I’m just hitting the highlights. Now you’re supporting street art through your Project Underground. Are you giving your endorsement to street art in Melbourne?

Harold: Where it’s legal, approved and proper of course.

But not in the case of unsolicited street art?

Harold: Never. Never. Where we can do it in a way that’s contained and appropriate we shouldn’t control it absolutely – but there’s some that I’m appalled with because it’s in inappropriate spots. After the first weekend we painted the carpark, we had someone who wasn’t one of the participants do a couple of signature pieces up one of the laneways here. I was appalled.

Tagging, is that what you mean?

Harold: Yes, tagging. I was appalled. It had disappeared within an hour. We knew who it was and he’d been spoken to. I thought it was inappropriate. How disrespectful of his fellow street artists, I would have thought. Here’s something that’s going to be looked at and enjoyed by many people and also relatively contained so it’s appropriate. One of the street artists goes to an alley way near by and just starts to do that. So that’s where I’m at – but as quickly as I decided to do this, I even quicker decided to paint over someone who had done something wrong.

Just to push this a little bit further; some street artists prefer to work illegally. So if an artist does something without permission, does that automatically make it vandalism? Does that mean it has no artistic merit or cultural value? Can it not be art?

Harold: Yes. It’s wrong. As far as I’m concerned it’s vandalism. I dealt with this tagging immediately.

Regardless of the quality, it makes no difference?

Harold: It makes no difference. We understand and respect that people want to be separated from society and make a statement. We understand that Banksy wants to do his in a way so that overnight secretly he arrives and the next morning there it is. Clever.

But in Banksy’s case, that would be vandalism then?

Harold: I wouldn’t say that. I think he probably knows where he’s doing it and it’s appropriate and right. I wouldn’t pre-judge Banksy. I think he just wants to make statements in his own way. So this is a project where we would like to know that Banksy was there. So we’ve left the premier spot right at the beginning free. And a sign will go at the beginning ‘left free for Banksy’. That’s the way we think we can approach it. He may come in one night and do it. He may not.

You obviously admire Banksy. So if Banksy came along and left something in the laneway, instead of in this free spot in the car park…

Harold: I wouldn’t want it. I’d paint over it straight away – but where I’ve left a spot for him, I’d accept it. So that’ll be an interesting challenge to see if he wants to do that. What do you reckon?

Ahh, I think he’s a pretty busy guy.

Harold: This is one of the biggest street art installations in the world, in one of the most creative cities in the world right now. It is an economic strong point with people who are very comfortable with their life and who they are. Where else would you do it if not Melbourne? I’m chairman of the MSO. We’re just about to lose of chief executive. He’s 42. I specially picked him from Houston. I wish him well and allowed him to accept a job as chief executive of the New York Philharmonic. How good is that? It’s exciting for everybody. For him, for Melbourne, for New York. That’s where Melbourne is. Banksy doesn’t want to come here, that’s ok with us.

Well he’s been here. Hopefully he’ll come again.

Harold: This’ll just be too much for him. I don’t know of anywhere that will look as spectacular as this. That is as encompassing of it and arguably has the best street artists all there. We got the guy from Perth with all the silver in his teeth (Stormie Mills), wonderful bloke.

You said in Living Large that you never stay too long in public roles …

Harold: Yeah the Opera is the exception. I was the Chairman of the museum for five years or so. National gallery, five years. I think what happens is the enthusiasm you bring creates success in the beginning, that wanes over time. Then you should help pick the person who will replace you and get out of the way.

So will street art advocacy be your new philanthropic public role?

Harold: No, no, no. I’m not adopting street art as the new religion for me. I’m turning a very boring car park into one of the most exciting car parks in the world. How good is that? I’m done with car parks now. I’ve only got one. I’m grateful to the street artists of the world for turning a boring car park into a place people want to go to. I guess people could hold parties in there. I know we’ll open it on the weekends from time to time for people to bring their kids in. So we should. I’m happy with that. Our staff talk about it. I’m happy about that. They bring their mum and dad and kids in. Probably a grandfather. Street art is exciting. You wait until you go and look at it all together.

I’ve heard street art described as a way of bringing art to the people.

Harold: Well that’s because it’s out in the streets, I suppose,but galleries are free. I think it’s just an expression of people in a different way. We’re sitting here with some of the greatest street art in the world. My office is filled with some of the greatest indigenous painting in the world. When you go to our office down the street, there’s a guy Tommy Watson. Tommy is 69 years old. Probably the greatest living Aboriginal artist. His artwork is expensive but they’re an expression of what he felt and did. They would paint those often on cave walls and in the sand. Over the last 30 years they’ve put them on more solid formats – but that was an expression of 1000 years plus of Australian indigenous people. What is street art but an expression of individuals? When you see what people have done it’s incredible.
They’re all clever.

Melbournes street art is generally ranked among the top 5 cities in the world, while most of the ‘fine arts’ (the MSO, the Australian Ballet, Melbourne Opera) are considered mediocre in their respective fields on the world stage. Street art is inherently egalitarian while the fine arts are often labeled as elitist. Street art generates a lot of positive economic externalities in the form of tourism and adding to the liveability of the city. And yet the fine arts are subsidized to the tune of tens of millions of dollars a year by the taxpayer while street art is actively hindered by the state government.

Do you agree that there is a funding imbalance here? If so, what can street artists and our advocates do to redress this situation? So for example, how do we get to a situation where there might be state grants available for endeavours like your Project Melbourne Underground?

Harold: I think you need to put the arts into perspective with regard to public funding. It’s largely funded by the people. It’s not like Europe where it’s largely funded by government. Here it’s largely funded by private enterprise and the sale of tickets.

I actually have the data here. This is the public funding given to the arts by the Australia Council in 2009-2010 financial year. So for example orchestras were subsidized by the tax payers to the tune of almost $50M by public funds.

Harold: About a third of their operating cost. It’s half what happens in Europe. I just completed a major review for the Federal Government. So what’s your point?

When other branches of the arts are subsidised like this, why isn’t their funding for legal street art projects? How can we get to a situation where there are similar subsidies for things like your Underground Project?

Harold: But why should there be?

Why should there be tax payer subsidies for the MSO or the Australian Ballet? Why these selected arts and not street art? I feel like street is stigmatised by this bad publicity and it means it doesn’t qualify for arts funding like other fields.

Harold: I don’t agree with that. I’ve been sitting here for a week with people enjoying this street art in my car park and no one has said to me ‘this is bad’. Everyone has smiled every time they thought about it. No one has expected anything other than that this would be done by the people and funded by the people (ie, I’m one of the people).

But you’re not the people – you’re a private person who has ponied up this cash for this one project. I think it’s a great project. I love that you’ve done this – but why aren’t our civic institutions supporting street art in Melbourne? Why is it just private individuals who have to do everything?

Harold: Happens all the time. You look at the arts and dig right into it and find all the individual philanthropy that no one talks about. I won’t talk about my own case, but I have been supporting individual artists in many places all over the world. It’s wrong to pull out something where over a long period of time society has wanted ballet companies, orchestras and it would have been very hard for them to get started and so government decided that they will assist the people and the culture by giving support. That happens in many different ways. You could contrast symphony orchestras with the fact that a greater sum of money is paid to support the orchestras, bands and musicians in our defense forces. They receive a greater support that our symphony orchestras do. No one seems to have a problem with that. It’s part of the way society is.

I don’t know that street artists actually want their help.

I think many street artists would take financial assistance if it was offered. I don’t think all would but I think many would.

Harold: I’ve dealt with them up closely. They’ve given their time and their effort beyond what you’d imagine. We’ve met some of their costs. Project Underground will come in at a quarter of a million dollars. That’s ok. They all understand that we pay for the airfare of international people coming in. That was a good thing to do. So I don’t believe that the tax payers dollar needs to support many other things. Then taxes just keep going up. Society doesn’t want that to happen. They vote people out who do that, so it just doesn’t happen. So you’ve got to have a balance. Australia has to continue to have a very good policy of helping ourselves. That’s not helping ourselves to the tax. That’s just helping ourselves. There are so many places where you would see the arts supported by the people. You can pick out some examples of symphony orchestras which are supported. Now it’s a very minor amount of the total amount that finally gets used to run the organization. I don’t believe that street art needs government taxpayer support. Equally I’m pretty certain that the street artists don’t want it. They’d do this anyway, because they do. You won’t get me going on that one.

By the way, you were wrong about the standing of Australian cultural groups like the Australian Ballet. The MSO is about to be invited to play at the Edinburgh festival. Not a bad effort. The MSO played the White Nights Festival in St Petersburg; one of twelve orchestras in the world that went there in 2001. My family paid for it, that’s how I know that. This is what I do, so I know.

By the way, in 1901 Australia had the highest per capita income in the world. Over the next seven years we bought over one third of all the great masters paintings that were ever sold in the world. One third. They are down the road in the National Gallery of Victoria.

But there’s no Europeans or Americans coming to Melbourne specifically to visit the NGV. Not when they have the Guggenheim, Moma the Louvre or the Tate just down the road – but a lot of tourists do come here for the street art. Tourist guides rank it as the number 1 free tourist attraction in the city. It’s a draw card.

Harold: I’m not sure how you balance my comment I just made about the NGV. Not a bad effort is it? A lot of people from the northern hemisphere don’t understand that the southern hemisphere is here.
I run Australia’s biggest advertising company. We’re less that 0.3% of the world’s population. We have 5% of the world’s advertising. We have the largest per capita advertising in the world. You try to tell that to someone in New York. What? Where? Didn’t you win the America’s cup? It’s the dilemma of who and what we are down here but we’re very comfortable with ourselves.

Separate things have emerged here like the comedy that grew out of comedy halls thirty or forty years ago. They all did it for nothing. Around here we had a recording studio. Johnny Farnham used to record here. South Melbourne was the home to some of our greatest advertising people. They’d work for next to nothing. That’s the way that art works. I used to drive Peter Carey to work why? Because his wife had the car. One of our great writers, who won the Booker Prize many times over. You don’t need to subsidize great creativity because history has shown that it has never happened. Equally because it is invasive of society it needs to be handled with great care. I’m respectful and in awe of street artists and equally respectful of society and the fact that they want order in the streets. I think I’ve got it ok in my head anyway. I don’t want tax payers to have street artists in streets where they shouldn’t be. And I’m pretty certain, nor do the street artists.

When we had the one isolated incident of one street artist using out alleyways to tag, you know what happened? They told us who it was.

One of the other street artists told you who it was?

Harold: Yes. They weren’t happy. Not a bad effort is it, on behalf of all the people you represent. They understood it. One out of all the people there; he just wanted to make a statement. Who was unhappiest? The fellow street artists because they see the project as being so good. It’s one of the best things to ever happen to street art. We just have to work out how the people are going to get to see it.
I had a boring car park. Street artists are incredible people. I’ve given them an opportunity to prove how credible they are.

Melbourne is not usually considered the best city in the world for street art (compared to San Francisco, Berlin or Sao Paolo) but it’s not far behind them. In fact pipping many of these cities to become number one seems well within reach. What would it be worth to Melbourne to be at the head of an art movement? Not just in economic terms but in cultural terms as well.

Harold: No, I’m not getting into that one. If I encourage it as a destination because of street art it means that more of our streets will be covered with it. If the Melbourne City Council organises it, and says it’s ok, then I’m ok with that – but I think the Underground Project will have added to pushing us up the ladder. It’s 3 floors. Someone will copy it soon enough. Just to see the excitement of the people doing it, when they were doing, it was fabulous. Three floors of these people, just being so excited and talking to each other as they do it. We supplied them with a big box of spray paints. I said to one of them ‘You’ve probably never had anything like this.’ He replied ‘No it’s fantastic’. I am just in awe of how they do it.

I don’t know how they found them all, we had one guy who decided upon the artists and organised them all.

We will have a whole bunch of photos from Melbourne Underground when it is all released – for now, you can also check out some previews on the Just Another Agency blog, Kompound and Everfresh! We’d also like to note that Sirum and Esky had a big hand in helping to curate the artists for the project, and they did an amazing job at that – kudos!